"That represents the innermost core of this. It is called that because it is not known to you yet. Those who know, for them there is only this and no that, or only that and no this. The duality disappears, but for the blind the duality is there. Everything is dual, if you are not fully aware – divided.

"This means that which you can see and that means which is invisible. This is the wheel and that is the axle. The wheel moves on the axle but the axle moves not. All movement depends on something unmoving: all change depends on something eternal Time depends on timelessness. Birth and death happen into something which is never born and never dies.

"This represents all that is known to the unenlightened and that which is known when you become enlightened. When you are full of light you have .clarity, perception, transparency; you can see through and through. In that vision, this starts melting into that; the circumference disappears into the center. The center is naturally hidden, it is bound to be hidden; only the circumference is available to the senses. You can see only the surface, you cannot see the depths. If you go to the ocean you can see only the surface and the surfacial turmoil; you cannot see the depth. To see the depth you will have to dive deep, and as far as the ultimate that is concerned, only diving deep won't do: you will have to dive so deep that you disappear totally, become one with it. In that oneness God is realized.

"The people who go on arguing about God know nothing about God. Those who know, they cannot argue about God. Yes, their very presence is a proof, their very existence radiates the ultimate, their 'thisness' is overflowing with 'thatness', but they cannot prove logically, intellectually the existence of God. God is not an object, hence it cannot be put before you. It cannot be made a collective experience.

"That's why science goes on denying God, and science will go on denying God because science depends on collective observation; it believes only in that which can observed by everybody. It believes in the rock because the rock can be watched by everybody; everybody can agree that it exists."